Interesting Stuff in the World of Comics (Comic Book Forums)

• Interesting Stuff in the World of Comics

Author	Discussion
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10685 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 4:04:15 pm I was thinking this may be an interesting topic to post stuff on Creators, Characters, Comics, Publishers or anything comic related. I think new collectors and probably some long time ones may not know some of the stories behind our hobby. So share your knowledge with us here... I'll start with one I just posted in another thread to get things rolling. How did Spider-Mans Black costume come to be? The black costume originated in 1982 from an idea submitted by 22-year-old fan Randy Schueller, after Marvel ran a competition for aspiring writers and artists to elicit new ideas for the Marvel Universe. Schueller's idea was to slightly upgrade Spider-Man's abilities and appearance: He would don a new black, stealth-like suit designed by Reed Richards and The Wasp of the Avengers. Composed of the same unstable molecules found in the Fantastic Four's costumes, this new suit would be more durable and stealth-like than the handmade red and blue costume. The idea was purchased by Jim Shooter at Marvel for the sum of $220 US dollars and the opportunity to craft the story. Schueller submitted different versions of the story, but ultimately, Marvel took creative control. It was not until 1984's Secret Wars #8 that the black costume would debut. Having damaged his original costume in battle, Spider-Man discovers a machine thought to be a fabric replicator. The machine produces a black sphere, which then engulfs Peter in black goo, eventually forming his suit while augmenting his powers and abilities. The suit would later be revealed to be a symbiotic lifeform. https://spiderman.fandom.com/wiki/Symbiote_Costume Last edited December 4, 2020 1:48:15 pm "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
brucifer Wise Beyond the Years lifetime member Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1133 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 7:15:50 pm Great idea Canuck. Even us old time readers don't know everything. As far as creators, I would like to read your take on Richard Corben. Also, maybe you can tell me how Rob Liefeld got a job penciling comic books. He is so horrible.
Rapha1978 Comic Guru Location: North Carolina Posts: 939 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 7:52:07 pm There are so many... these are just a few I can remember. 1. Deadpool was actually inspired by the DC character Deathstroke. Rob Liefeld had a thing for The New Teen Titans and the dead giveaway is that Deadpool's real name is Wade Wilson. Deathstroke's is Slade Wilson. 2. Stan Lee came up with the idea for Spider-Man by watching a fly crawl up a wall and he thought to himself what a cool power to have. He thought maybe Fly-man, Mosquito-Man, and ended up with Spider-Man but felt no one really liked spiders–so struggled with the name. He almost didn't run with it. They needed something for the last issue of Amazing Fantasy (which had sales dying) and he decided to get it out if his system. He presented the idea to his publisher and they hated it. They hated that the hero was a teenager and named after a bug. Making a long story short they decided to go with it and put the character on the cover and Stan says he later forgot about it. That issue sold so well and received so much fanfare that they brought the character into his own title. (And in case anyone doesn't know it was his favorite character.) 3. The first superhero comic Marvel ever published was Human Torch (Marvel Comics #1, 1939). This torch had no relation to the Human Torch in Fantastic Four. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby decided to reuse the name for Johnny Storm's character. 4. Wonder Woman was created by William Moulton Marston, the same person who invented the polygraph. Her origin, as far as how she was created, is somewhat disturbing, so if you are a fan of the character I would advise not to read on... Considered taboo in his time (and even so today), William Marston was in a life-long polyamorous relationship with both his wife (Elizabeth Marston), and a woman by the name of Olive Byrne. Both women bore him children, and Olive whom was basically his lover was the inspiration for the Wonder Woman character. Even the golden bands she wears on the pages were inspired by Olive's own bracelets which she was known to wear all the time. Whenever I share some of this with someone who's never heard it, they think I am making this up, but it's true. It only gets worse. Marston was a psychologist and his idea in creating the character was partly a fascination with mythology and bondage/submission. His ultimate goal in comics was to seduce the reader into what he called "s-x love training." He was quoted saying, "Give them an alluring woman stronger than themselves to submit to, and they'll be proud to become her willing slaves!" Last edited December 3, 2020 10:26:12 pm We strike hard and fade away into the night
Rapha1978 Comic Guru Location: North Carolina Posts: 939 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 8:09:28 pm brucifer said: Also, maybe you can tell me how Rob Liefeld got a job penciling comic books. He is so horrible. I agree and disagree. Rob's done just as much good for the industry as he has done bad pencilling. I give him credit for helping create iconic characters like Cable, Deadpool, Domino, most of the X-Force (I always like Shatterstar and Warpath until Marvel ruined the characters), and the Youngblood team, Prophet, and Glory. But to answer your question, he was just in the right place at the right time. When Rob was hired to pencil New Mutants, sales were pretty low on that title and it lacked consistency. It was not tying in with the other X-titles very well. Liefeld came in right around the time Jim Lee got put on Uncanny X-Men, and then While Portacio on X-Factor. These three artists are what defined the X-titles/X-Men of the 90s. Their art was different and had a sort of young vibe to it. Early 90s there were a lot of teenagers and pre-teens reading and at that age no one really knew what great art was...even Jim Lee's stuff was a little crude then, but it was exciting for them to see something that didn't look like the 80s, you know, when everyone was trying to copy John Byrne's style. Eventually that art style that Liefeld/Lee/Portacio were doing was being copied by just about everyone during that decade. I think what happened was Lee and Portacio took some time off and honed their skills, but Liefeld sort of kept doing what he was doing and what worked in his 20s didn't look so great in his 30s... Last edited December 3, 2020 8:09:40 pm We strike hard and fade away into the night
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10685 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 8:18:54 pm Side note, did you know Rob Liefeld did a 501 Jeans commercial? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJhoa2SVGNA "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
AmZoMBiE Wise Beyond the Years moderator Location: Michigan Posts: 6832 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 8:45:22 pm little off subject, but i just found this out recently and that jogged my memory lol Did you know that Brian Johnson sang a Hoover Vacuum Commercial lol...he took the job right before winning the lead singer job for AC/DC lol https://995thefox.iheart.com/featured/k-c-wheeler/content/2020-05-06-acdcs-brian-johnson-sang-in-a-hoover-vacuum-tv-commercial/#:~:text=AC%2FDC%27s%20Brian%20Johnson%20sang%20in%20a%20Hoover%20Vacuum,he%20auditioned%20to%20replace%20Bon%20Scott%20in%20AC%2FDC. sorry, i digress lol... Last edited December 3, 2020 8:46:20 pm "How to destroy a man... Grant him his heart's desire." --Victor Von Doom - - - - - - - - - - Latest Additions Secret Wars #1 CGC 9.8 Dr. Doom Custom Label... Cameo Emperor Doom!! Secret Wars #2 CGC 9.8 Dr. Doom Custom Label... 1st full app of Emperor Doom!!!
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10685 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 10:21:18 pm I really don't have much to say on Corben but this... I think my first encounter of Richard Corbin's work was the Meatloaf- Bat out of H ell album cover. I didn't realize until a few years later when I was reading an issue of Heavy Metal magazine that he was actually a comic artist. It was years later when he started Fantagor Press in the mid 80's I rediscovered his work in Den, Rip in Time and Mutant World. His work was weird and fascinating at the same time, he was painting a comic panel by panel, page by page which was pretty amazing for the time. He was the Alex Ross of his time. I enjoyed his artwork but his choice of topics was limited and was borderline p orn at the time. (A lot more explicit stuff came out shortly after making his work pretty mellow.) Found this a while back if you're interested, it's a interview he did with Heavy Metal years ago. There are 3 parts... http://muuta.net/wp/interviews/richard-corben-interview-part-1/ Last edited December 4, 2020 8:55:52 am "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10685 My Collection	Posted: December 3, 2020 11:03:22 pm I, like most collectors of my era, we saw and liked what Liefeld brought to the drawing board. His style was a fresh new look that had us wanting more. He created new characters faster than anyone had done in a long time, granted most of them were pretty lame. I wasn't looking at the art as critically as I and most collectors do now, we were just looking for good stories and as long as Rob wasn't writing, the tales were usually good. Like Rapha said he came along at the right time when comics were hurting and Marvel needed something to boost sales and bringing in a bunch of new talent would do that, until they left and Marvel Filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 1996...but that's another story. Barry Windsor-Smith had this to say about Rob - Rob Liefeld has nothing to offer. It's as plain as bacon on your plate. He has nothing to offer. He cannot draw. He can't write. He is a young boy almost, I would expect, whose culture is bubble gum wrappers, Saturday morning cartoons, Marvel Comics; that's his culture... I see nothing in his work that allows me to even guess that there's any depth involved in that person that might come to the fore given time. Last edited December 4, 2020 9:01:08 am "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10685 My Collection	Posted: December 4, 2020 11:29:39 am The following is from Jim Shooter's blog found here in his own words - http://jimshooter.com/ But if you like you can just read them here... The Secret Origin of Jim Shooter, Editor in Chief – Part 1 This part of the story hasn’t ever been told. I was hired by Editor in Chief Marv Wolfman in December of 1975. My first day on the job as “associate editor” was the first working day of the new year, Monday, January 5, 1976. Marv lasted only three more months or so before leaving to become a contract writer-editor. Marv said he quit. President Jim Galton later told me otherwise. But, be that as it may, Marv exited gracefully, or was allowed to. The plan was for Roy to return as EIC. At one point, we spoke. Where I come from, it is proper that when a new boss comes in, the assistant or assistants offer their resignations. Why? Because a new boss is likely to want to bring in his own assistants, and would rather not have to go through a messy process of firing people or tolerating people he or she doesn’t want. I told Roy I’d leave voluntarily if he preferred, and that if that was the case, I’d appreciate being given freelance work. Roy said, no, I could I stay. He told me, however, that there were a number of people who had to go, and a few he intended to bring back. He named names. I won’t. At the last minute, literally, Roy changed his mind, and decided to remain a contract writer-editor. I think that was around the time he decided to move to California. Maybe that had something to do with it. Not sure. Marv seemed excited. He reasoned that they’d probably ask him to stay. And since it was sort of an emergency situation, that he could probably demand more money. But, no. Apparently, the first time Roy was Editor in Chief, Stan had promised Gerry Conway the Editor in Chief job if Roy ever left. Roy’s first EIC stint ended in 1974, but Len Wein, not Gerry succeeded him. According to Gerry, Marv and Len had lobbied against his being hired and prevailed. Yes, I know that’s all hearsay, but he said it and I heard it. Gerry quit at DC, where he’d been working since the snub years ago, and suddenly was Marvel EIC. Much to the chagrin of Marv, Len and their buddies. Gerry lasted as EIC for only a few stormy weeks. Then he left to become a writer-editor. Archie Goodwin, who had been the editor of the black and white magazines, was promoted to EIC replacing Gerry. (ASIDE: Gerry’s writing contract called for eight books a month! To provide him with enough work, titles were taken away from several other writers. They were outraged, and gathered in the office to confront Stan and protest. Gerry got wind of this and somehow talked his way into JOINING their protest. He went in to see Stan with them, arm in arm. I know Mantlo and Claremont were in that group. Who else? There were several others. Moench? I don’t know. Chris would probably remember. Anyway, the net result was that Stan and Archie persuaded then-president Al Landau to add enough titles to make up for the work the protesters, excluding Gerry, had lost. Remember the Marvel Classics? That was the make-work created to keep Claremont, Moench, et al busy.) Archie Goodwin lasted 19 months. Shortly before Archie started, Stan had decided he wanted to be more involved with the comics again. He had been spending most of his time upstairs on the ninth floor, home to the non-comics people and big shots, where he contributed his advice and expertise to the magazines the company published under the Magazine Management imprint (not Marvel). MM published soap opera rags, puzzle books and what used to be called in the trade “men’s sweat magazines.” These mostly contained somewhat lurid adventure stories like “I Was the Love Slave of the Prison Camp,” with a cover photo of some woman with her blouse partially torn being menaced by an evil guy in a WWII German uniform. Occasionally, to save the cost of paying models, women around the office posed (clothed) for photos to illustrate scenes of various stories. I was told that even the magnificent Marie Severin once had a picture taken for such a purpose. If the magazines published by MM sound cheesy, well, you got that right. ASIDE: Early in his career, Mario Puzo worked upstairs on the magazines. That was before my time, but I think I have an ancient Marvel phone extension list with his name on it. If I ever come across it, I’ll show you. Anyway, Stan started showing up regularly at his sixth floor office. As stated previously, in another post, Stan was plenty busy being the resident genius and face of Marvel whether he was in his ninth floor office or downstairs with us, but once he settled in on the comics floor, he tried to help. “Make-readies” used to come in from World Color Press once a week. They were the first copies of the books off the presses, hand stapled and sent express to Marvel so we could see how bad the books were as soon as possible, I suppose. At that stage, nothing could be changed. Stan got in the habit of reading the make-readies and marking them up. Then, he’d ask Archie to come to his office, flip through the books one by one and show Archie all the mistakes, problems, crass stupidities, etc. Archie a) knew well what was wrong with the books. There was little about comics he didn’t know. And, b) Archie didn’t have time to sit there and listen to what he already knew. So, he sicced Stan on me. He told Stan, correctly, that I was the one who actually did the hands-on editing of the books and that Stan should go over them with me. So, once a week, I was called to Stan’s office. Once a week, Stan would go through that week’s batch of books panel by panel with me, pointing out item by item what train wrecks most of them were. Stan would say things like, “What’s going on here? Don’t let them do these incomprehensible shots. We need clear storytelling.” “Is this the same room as last panel, or did we cut to Mars?” “Where did this guy come from? You have to show entrances and exits, or at least mention them.” “Pointers should be straight, and aimed at the speaker’s mouth.” “This coloring is mud. Tell them to leave white space.” “This story makes no sense.” “What idiot wrote this line?” I’ll never forget that one. In that particular case, the idiot was me. I learned a few things from those sessions, mostly things Stan wanted done differently than what I was taught at DC. For instance, DC preferred balloons “surrounded by color,” that is, off the borders. Stan wanted balloons butted to the borders to clear more space for the art. But, I already knew most of what Stan was preaching. I might not have been as wise in the ways of comics as Archie, but I’m not a dummy and I had a lot of training from my DC days that applied. After a couple of months of this, Stan started sounding more and more annoyed when we went over the make-readies. “I told you, straight pointers! Don’t let them do these snakey pointers.” “Haven’t we already talked about white space?” Etc. I’d say I know, Stan, but sometimes things slip by. I’d mutter something about having 45 titles to edit, and that I tried to fix the worst…. Stan didn’t seem to grok that 45 books were too many to edit properly. One reason, is because Stan assumed that if I told someone once “no snakey pointers,” he’d say, “Oh, I see, yes sir,” and it would never happen again. More likely, knowing that I had no power to fire him or visit any consequences whatsoever upon him, he would say, “Go to ,” and continue doing whatever he pleased. After many months, Stan firmly believed that I was drain bamaged or stupid beyond human imagining. The lectures continued, but he started speaking as if he were talking to a kindergarten child. Great. Somewhere along the way, the Spider-Man syndicated strip launched. John Romita was doing the art. Stan wrote the dialogue—but he didn’t want to do the plotting. He hired Len Wein to plot the strip. That was considered quite an honor, reaffirming Len’s status as our number one writer, or at least number one not counting Roy, who was unavailable. It didn’t work out. Stan didn’t like Len’s plots. I don’t remember much about those strips except that there seemed to be a lot of Spider-Man dangling outside Jonah Jameson’s window exchanging snappy patter. Stan asked Archie who was the number two writer. The politically correct answer Archie gave was former EIC Marv. Marv turned the gig down. Somehow, it had gone from being an honor to being a chance that Stan would decide you were no good. Stan asked Archie to put together a list of Marvel’s writers, ranked in order. Archie left himself off. He was too busy to plot the strip, though, for my money, he was obviously the best choice, having written Secret Agent Corrigan for years. Archie’s list included 33 writers. He put me at number 33. I’d like to think it was because I had a staff job. I’d like to think he didn’t want me taking time away from editing. But maybe he just thought I sucked. Dunno. Anyway, Stan asked EVERYONE ON THE LIST except me. Everyone turned him down. Finally, in desperation, he called me to his office. Looking as though he had a tremendous headache, he asked me if I’d plot the strip. I said sure. Then, looking as though his headache was worsening, he explained to me what he needed me to do. Slowly, and in small words. As if he were trying to prep a chimp. Sundays had to fit in continuity, yet stand alone. They had to add something, but something non-essential to readers who only read the dailies. 16 week arcs. Big events mid-week. Teasers. Etc. I kept saying, “I know Stan.” I delivered my overview of the first arc in a day or two. Stan liked it. And seemed amazed, befuddled. I delivered my first few weeks plots, broken down day by day and panel by panel a few days later. Stan said, “These are good,” with amazement in his voice. I said, exactly, “I know what I’m doing.” Stan gave my plots to John to draw and away we went. There were only two bumps in the road. First, when Stan went to dialogue a daily a couple of times, he ran into trouble and called me in. He hadn’t checked what John drew against the plot, of course, and assumed the glitches were plot flaws he hadn’t noticed. I showed him the plots. John hadn’t drawn what was called for. Nonetheless, I had to do some fancy steppin’ to adjust the story. No time to redraw the art. So, instead of turning in written plots, I started doing scribble-sketch layouts, like I used to do at DC, along with notes for clarification. Stan loved it. He wrote the dialogue from my scribbles! Then John couldn’t very well give us a big close up of Mary Jane when an establishing shot was called for. ASIDE: I included this note to artists in several of my Dark Horse scripts. It’s germane: (NOTE: Stan always told me never to crop a pretty girl so high that you couldn’t see her bust. Or at least some cleavage. I used to have tremendous problems with John Romita, Sr. when I was plotting and laying out the Spider-Man syndicated strip. John would always crop the girls extra-tastefully at the shoulders, even if I laid the panel out properly, per Stan. John actually considered becoming a priest when he was young. What a choirboy. Then Stan would go honking at John, then John would get annoyed with me for getting him in trouble. What did I do?! Then the redo would make the strip late. Then…well, it’s a long story. Anyway, show her charms.) I once scribbled a panel of Peter Parker approaching a bus stop. Several people, including a pretty woman wearing a skirt were waiting at the stop. I chose a low angle, which showed a little of her thighs. Nothing too racy. Not lewd, not flirting with the limits. Not in bad taste. Just a smidgen of appeal. Remember the Doris Day/Rock Hudson movies? Like that. Very Doris Day. John squared up that perspective in a hurry. Stan was appalled. Anyway…. Stan started to figure out that I wasn’t an idiot. Tomorrow: The Plotting Thickens the Plot Note (in response to comments): Just to be clear, Stan was never abusive to me, like Mort was. And he was very polite the first 500 times or so that he told me about snakey pointers and what have you. Even his patience got stretched when week after week there was no apparent progress. Stan could be critical, but he was never mean or mean spirited. The “happy” side you know of Stan is real. He’s a great guy. Resident genius, creative guru, an icon who deserves to be one. Last edited December 4, 2020 11:30:26 am "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
brucifer Wise Beyond the Years lifetime member Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1133 My Collection	Posted: December 4, 2020 2:16:39 pm Thank you Canuck for these very interesting stories about Richard Corben and Jim Shooter. Great job! I'll even thank Rapha1978 for the Rob Liefeld story too. Yes, I hate him, so much, but he was certainly correct about his timing in the early '90s. Quite the lucky guy to still have a job nowadays. The William Moulton Marston story I already knew and I have told many people the same thing and no one believes me!!
30 posts • Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next >>

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.