feature requests

Second appearances (Comic Book Forums)

  • Second appearances

Author Discussion
  • Posted: October 29, 2018 9:41:41 pm
  • Maybe it is just me, but hoping I am not in a one person club with my thinking about characters second appearances in comic books. Although there are some exceptions, for the most part, a characters second appearance is kind of treated like a red-headed step-child as far as values go.
    Some first appearances are just too far out of the ballpark, and I cannot afford them, but am happy to get the second appearance on a character I like. But what is up with the values not being anywhere in the orbit of the first appearance?
    A couple of examples that I can use are:
    1. Ms. Marvel's first appearance in Avenging Spider-man #9 is clocked at $110 in NM. Being a hot character and a movie on the way, I have seen copies going anywhere from $200-$500 and above, averaging at about $250.
    So, Avenging Spider-man #10, with the second Ms. Marvel appearance, and continuation of the story is only about $6 in NM. Seems a little off balance to me.
    2. This is the item that really made me think more about this topic...
    Uncanny X-men #266 with Gambit's first appearance is about $120. Another book that may spike with a movie in the future. And again, we have #267 with Gambit's second appearance for only $8.

    Not a lot of love for second appearances I think.
    As I said, there are some exceptions.
    One that comes to mind is Morbius.
    1st appearance in ASM 101 is $525 in NM.
    2nd appearance in ASM 102 is $260 in NM.
    About half the value in difference there, and that seems to be closer in mind to what I would think/hope second appearances should be in terms of value.
    Anywho, that is my 2 cents on second appearances.
    “I don't wear white to hide myself. I wear it so they'll see me coming. So they'll know who it is. 'Cause when they see the white, it doesn't matter how good of a target I am. Their hands shake so bad, they couldn't hit the moon.”
  • Posted: October 30, 2018 8:31:07 am
  • On the one hand, I definitely agree with you. I was about as excited to score my second appearance of Poison Ivy as I would have been with the first. Especially when you like a less popular or less common character like that, almost any appearance is exciting. But with any character, I can see why it's especially the early ones that are most "special" in general. I do think that the value should maybe scale a little bit more proportionally for second appearance, & here's my but....BUT....then you'd run a slippery slope as that scale tapers off into like, eighth, twelfth, etc. appearances. Where does the line end for what makes the appearance special (hypothetically speaking, anyway)? Again, personally, I get psyched anytime I get to see ol' Poison Ivy in any sort of meaningful story, especially when not linked with Harley Quinn (whom I don't like), so to me, that's special, but I can also see that her 25th appearance wouldn't be special to most other people.

    I'm starting to think I'm babbling & maybe not making sense, so I'm gonna wrap this up until I'm not at work & can maybe put a little more thought into my thoughts lol.

  • Posted: October 30, 2018 9:34:21 am
  • @Morgayne I totally agree and comprehend with your analysis on this topic. The 6th, 7th, 8th, 24th appearances etc would get so out of whack in terms of values. I think we both agree the second appearances in many cases are playing the 20 mile down the rode fiddle to the first appearances. It just seems strange that it is this way. Especially when the second appearance is the very next consecutive issue, like the examples in Avenging Spider-man and Uncanny X-men. Even 3rd appearances should get a little credit I think, especially for a popular character. Another example to the contrary is Venom. Some earlier appearances have risen more in value than other Venom appearances beyond that point.
    “I don't wear white to hide myself. I wear it so they'll see me coming. So they'll know who it is. 'Cause when they see the white, it doesn't matter how good of a target I am. Their hands shake so bad, they couldn't hit the moon.”
  • Posted: October 30, 2018 11:01:54 am
  • In Golden and Silver age comics a 2nd appearance is still valuable. Maybe 20-30 years from now there will be more interest for modern characters 2nd app. It's an interesting topic to discuss.

    Thinking back I actually really enjoyed Deadpool's 2nd appearance in X-Force #2 more than I did his first. Venom's 2nd appearance in ASM #300 was also better that his first. Something else that also really draws my attention is to a characters first appearance on a cover. A lot of times their first appearance is just within the pages of a comic. For example, Venom's first was ASM #299, but first cover that ever had Venom was ASM #316 which to me was just even more awesome and can be had today at a better price than ASM #299 or #300.

    Last edited October 30, 2018 11:02:38 am
    We strike hard and fade away into the night
  • Posted: October 30, 2018 11:40:51 am
  • Rapha1978 said:
    In Golden and Silver age comics a 2nd appearance is still valuable. Maybe 20-30 years from now there will be more interest for modern characters 2nd app. It's an interesting topic to discuss.

    Thinking back I actually really enjoyed Deadpool's 2nd appearance in X-Force #2 more than I did his first. Venom's 2nd appearance in ASM #300 was also better that his first. Something else that also really draws my attention is to a characters first appearance on a cover. A lot of times their first appearance is just within the pages of a comic. For example, Venom's first was ASM #299, but first cover that ever had Venom was ASM #316 which to me was just even more awesome and can be had today at a better price than ASM #299 or #300.

    Agreed on the ASM #299/#300 vs. #316. 316 is a beautiful cover by McFarlane and should be worth more since it his first cover appearance.

    I can't speak on X-Force #2 as it is drawn by ol' Bobby Liefeld and I can't enjoy it at all, but that discussion is for another time...Not talking
  • Posted: October 30, 2018 4:27:23 pm
  • MacheteF7 said:
    [I can't speak on X-Force #2 as it is drawn by ol' Bobby Liefeld and I can't enjoy it at all, but that discussion is for another time...Not talking


    Well in defense of Rob Liefeld, he's always had his own style. But if you aren't into his drawing at least give him credit for his creativeness. He gave Marvel a lot of great characters: Cable, Deadpool, Domino, and Shatterstar. Even outside of Marvel there are some of his characters I really enjoyed, like Prophet, Badrock (Youngblood), Supreme, and Chapel (Spawn). So many people in comics go decades in the industry and can't even create one memorable character.

    Last edited October 30, 2018 4:28:17 pm
    We strike hard and fade away into the night
  • Posted: October 30, 2018 6:45:15 pm
  • With the Gambit example...266 is the 2nd appearance btw...lol Annual 14 is his true first appearance. Granted pricing does not reflect this.


    Also heres the flipside of the 1st/2nd coin...Using the Gambit example...would you pay say $50 for issue 267? i wouldnt, and not because thats not where the market is at...A. Boring cover & B. 2nd app (technically 3rd) & C. Print #s...im sure they printed oodles of them...no real draw to pay more then $10 really...

    Last edited October 30, 2018 6:50:17 pm
    "How to destroy a man... Grant him his heart's desire." --Victor Von Doom
    ----------
    CGC Recently Returned
    Amazing Spider-Man #300 Newsstand- 1st app Venom (full) (5.5)
    Marvel Super Heroes #8 Newsstand - 1st Squirrel Girl (9.6)


    Recent Pick-Ups
    Thor #33: 1st app Tarene as Thor Girl
    Swamp Thing #0: Origin
    Swamp Thing Halloween Horror Giant: Walmart Exclusive
  • Posted: October 30, 2018 7:45:38 pm
  • Lets not forget Wolverine's second appearance is worth 4-5 times more than his first.
  • Posted: October 30, 2018 10:07:19 pm
  • Awesome, lots of great responses here!
    I did space on Gambit's appearance in the annual. Some other great tangents discussed too, with cameo's to true first appearances to first cover appearances.
    @Rapha1978 I think you are right on the money! The 2nd appearances definitely do hold their own in value in Silver and Golden age books. I suspect as well, we may see the current books 2nd appearances gain more interest and rise in value in another 20 years.
    “I don't wear white to hide myself. I wear it so they'll see me coming. So they'll know who it is. 'Cause when they see the white, it doesn't matter how good of a target I am. Their hands shake so bad, they couldn't hit the moon.”
  • Posted: October 31, 2018 11:07:56 pm
  • junobeach said:
    Lets not forget Wolverine's second appearance is worth 4-5 times more than his first.


    Only because they redefined cameo appearances. Back in the day, cameos didn't count.
  • Posted: November 1, 2018 11:05:34 am
  • stormraider said:
    junobeach said:
    Lets not forget Wolverine's second appearance is worth 4-5 times more than his first.


    Only because they redefined cameo appearances. Back in the day, cameos didn't count.
    Not true, Incredible Hulk #180 always was the first appearance of Wolverine and the price used to reflect that in Overstreet. Then people decided #181 was more important since it had him on the cover and throughout the story. The term 'first full appearance' was created.

    Now look at Darkseid's first app in Jimmy Olsen. That has always been considered his first app even though it's definitely a cameo.
  • Posted: November 1, 2018 10:17:13 pm
  • There are certainly different avenues in viewing a characters fist appearance...from cameo, to first true appearance, first solo story, ....heck there is even when the character was a baby noted as an appearance, a la' Normie and Nathan.
    Maybe I am mistaken, but isn't there also a cameo "in the shadows" appearance noted on some books?
    Lots of great feedback and knowledge here for sure!

    Last edited November 1, 2018 10:18:49 pm
    “I don't wear white to hide myself. I wear it so they'll see me coming. So they'll know who it is. 'Cause when they see the white, it doesn't matter how good of a target I am. Their hands shake so bad, they couldn't hit the moon.”
  • Posted: November 2, 2018 9:42:40 am
  • Another one that always gets a lot of controversy is the first appearance of the alien symbiote (Spider-Man). It was Secret Wars #8 where the story line began, so chronologically it's first. But that issue was published months after the black costume appeared in three issues published in the same month. The Amazing Spider-Man #252 , The Spectacular Spider-Man #90, and Marvel Team-Up #141. Web of Spider-Man #1 is also a contender. I remember back in the 80s and 90s most people agreed Secret Wars #8 was the one to get. Today most are saying it's one of the others mentioned–but all have held up well in value. My favorite is Secret Wars #8 mainly because of where it falls chronologically and when they publish the symbiote stories in trade paperback that issue always starts first. Also because of Mike Zeck being involved in that issue (since he was responsible for the actual design of the costume).

    Last edited November 2, 2018 9:43:48 am
    We strike hard and fade away into the night
  • Posted: November 2, 2018 7:49:07 pm
  • Rapha1978 said:
    Another one that always gets a lot of controversy is the first appearance of the alien symbiote (Spider-Man). It was Secret Wars #8 where the story line began, so chronologically it's first. But that issue was published months after the black costume appeared in three issues published in the same month. The Amazing Spider-Man #252 , The Spectacular Spider-Man #90, and Marvel Team-Up #141. Web of Spider-Man #1 is also a contender. I remember back in the 80s and 90s most people agreed Secret Wars #8 was the one to get. Today most are saying it's one of the others mentioned–but all have held up well in value. My favorite is Secret Wars #8 mainly because of where it falls chronologically and when they publish the symbiote stories in trade paperback that issue always starts first. Also because of Mike Zeck being involved in that issue (since he was responsible for the actual design of the costume).

    Great job on pointing that out. I have to agree with you on Secret Wars being the first (at least in my mind). After all, the costume itself originated in that book. Haha, oh yeah, the Marvel Age sneak peek too...but it hasn't really held its own. But, Marvel Age 12 did come out a couple of months prior to Secret wars. Just sayin'.
    “I don't wear white to hide myself. I wear it so they'll see me coming. So they'll know who it is. 'Cause when they see the white, it doesn't matter how good of a target I am. Their hands shake so bad, they couldn't hit the moon.”
  • Posted: November 2, 2018 8:08:17 pm
  • I think of older stuff when 2nd appearances are mentioned.
    Here are some I'm happy to own.

    Image

    Image


    Image

    Image


  • Posted: November 2, 2018 9:00:01 pm
  • Yep, the older books hold that value well in second appearances. Sweet collection. I have eyeballed that Avengers #2 for a little while. Hard to get even a copy in VG without paying a bit for it. I don't have any of the others, but do have the Werewolf 33. The closest thing I can come to #32 for now at least.
    “I don't wear white to hide myself. I wear it so they'll see me coming. So they'll know who it is. 'Cause when they see the white, it doesn't matter how good of a target I am. Their hands shake so bad, they couldn't hit the moon.”
  • Posted: November 3, 2018 3:50:06 pm
  • Avengers #2 was one of the first early 2nd issues I acquired back when it was more affordable.

    Hulk #2 was one of the last 2nd issues.
    Image

    I have a JIM #84, but it's not scanned yet.
  • Posted: November 3, 2018 4:57:09 pm
  • Even more jelly of that first series Hulk. I have found a few issues that I nearly pulled the trigger on, but they are so pricey. Great investment, but that initial buy in is so much. We will see one day...for now I have 4 pages of production art from that first series framed on my wall (2 framed pieces, 4 pages total). The JIM 84 is a great book to own. Definitely a keeper. I have #86 in about an 8.5 I picked up for a steal, and need to get it out to CGC at some point.
    “I don't wear white to hide myself. I wear it so they'll see me coming. So they'll know who it is. 'Cause when they see the white, it doesn't matter how good of a target I am. Their hands shake so bad, they couldn't hit the moon.”
  • Posted: November 6, 2018 5:38:39 pm
  • I was always assertive at picking up first issues if I could afford them. The ones seemingly just out of my budget eluded me. Eventually, I bought back issues of X-Men and #1 was the last issue I bought to complete the run at that time. I realized that I was screwing up by buying the most expensive book last. The most expensive books are the ones that spike in price the fastest. For that reason, I try to buy the most expensive book in a run first. In some cases, once I get the key books, I don't even care about owning the rest.
19 posts • Page 1 of 2
World Community Grid Logo
ComicBookRealm.com: 48 years, 196 days, 5 hours of Run Time
Help projects like: Smash Childhood Cancer, OpenZika, Help Stop TB, FightAIDS@Home - Phase 2, Outsmart Ebola Together, Mapping Cancer Markers, FightAIDS@Home
Join World Community Grid today!
  • Newest
  • Kodansha Comics's Boarding School Juliet Soft Cover # 2
  • Marvel Comics's Fantastic Four Issue # 3e
  • LEGO Systems's LEGO Club Magazine Issue may/jun 2014
  • IDW Publishing's Transformers: Unicron Issue # 6b