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quiksilverwv
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Location: Princeton, WV
Posts: 114
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- Posted: October 21, 2011 10:19:48 am
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I understand what you're saying about the Occupy Wall Street protesters, but where do you begin? Corporations have been given incredible leeway from the government right back to the English/Dutch/French East India Company. Personally, I just struggle to wrap my head around the fact a company can be worth x one day and y the next - something shouldn't be judged beyond it's actual assets.
About legality - even if it was illegal, they would move offshore. All Transnational Corporations, whether you're talking about Nike or Coke or whatever, can shift across borders whenever it suits them. TNCs have no political oversight and don't really have to answer to anyone.
Did we just become best friends?? 
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Bromagnon
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Location: Australia
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SilentAssassin
Wise Beyond the Years
lifetime member Location: Midwest
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- Posted: October 21, 2011 3:04:30 pm
- We have to all rely on ourselves that is the only thing we know is for sure. Corporations are not the problem just the way we handle them as a society. The treatment they get from politicians but what are you going to do? The stock market is a legalized gambling for the rich and a way for the rich to stick it to the middle class.
I could share a TON of insights about the market if your interested. I have learned we all have to take care of ourselves and that is that. We are solely responsible for teaching our kids about how to handle money and the velocity of money. I wish I was raised being taught the knowledge that I will now be able to pass onto my kids through my mistakes I have made in my life and I have made a TON.
I am old enough that I now need to stop making those mistakes and start making the right decision. Not that mistakes are bad but one has to realize that enough is enough and start learning from mistakes and do what one needs to do for himself and his family.
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Bromagnon
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Location: Australia
Posts: 124
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SilentAssassin
Wise Beyond the Years
lifetime member Location: Midwest
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- Posted: October 22, 2011 11:18:30 am
- Well I am not rich and I have lost and spent way more than I care to but I have and am learning from my mistakes. I think I am starting to figure things out though....
I believe in Democracy and 100% Capitalism it works for sure BUT the problem is that more people need to be educated with how to really be successful in this kind of political climate. Yes people are corrupted but even with big companies running everything and how it takes money for this and that the Internet has leveled the playing field for everyone. The problem is education, the people here have been known to at least eventually stand up for whats right and fight for what they believe in. Protests etc, there are people who are super rich that wants whats right not all rich people are bad and in the US people view rich as bad but its not bad to be rich its bad to be rich and controlling and greedy.
I would never change the way the US is run in terms of being a democracy and a total capitalist society. I know I have complaints but I firmly believe in this economical system things can be correct and probably will be corrected over time. Change sometimes slow but it can and will happen.
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Bromagnon
Grasshopper
Location: Australia
Posts: 124
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Bromagnon
Grasshopper
Location: Australia
Posts: 124
My Collection
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SilentAssassin
Wise Beyond the Years
lifetime member Location: Midwest
Posts: 2614
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- Posted: October 23, 2011 9:50:24 am
bromagnon said:
I wish I shared your belief in democracy and capitalism. From my point of view, you have to go back to the start of liberalism via Locke, Smith et al: the basis was life, property and prosperity. Everyone was meant to have a level playing field in order to enhance their livelihood - but show me where everyone has a level playing field. It's easier if you are part of the upper middle-class and onward but the rest of society are already caught under the yoke of the corporations so how is one meant to better one's station?Maybe I've been corrupted by so many different cases, but I just see capitalism as the exploitation of lower classes - whether it be India, China or the slavery of the Americas. And as for Democracy, what say do you honestly have beyond the actual election of such and such? I can't really speak for American politics, but here Guillard formed a minority government and boy is she hated (with the Carbon Tax, etc) but there is no system to say that the people have had enough and want to get rid of her. You vote once every x amount of years, but what say does one have beyond that? I don;'t disagree with democracy btw but I believe a combination of a plebiscite democracy (whereby everyone has somewhat of a say in policy) and socialism (if you're going to have unfettered capitalism then people need help). Just a point, you say to be rich is not necessarily bad, but how many of the rich give money away to the lower classes? We've already established that the top few percent of society own the majority of the money so a few of them handing out a bit of money doesn't make much difference.You wouldn't change anything? Despite the 1 trillion+ debt? As long as your foreign policy tones back a bit I'll be happy
No matter what socio economic class you are in especially anything below the upper middle class everyone has the opportunity to better their lives and create a better life for their family and their future generations. Lower classes especially can get more help from the government such as food stamps, bill assistance and educational assistance and in many cases the government will pay for everything for the lower classes. The opportunity is there for everyone but the choice is up to the individual who has a choice to make their life better. Life is what you make it and life becomes you from the choices you make. The choice is up to the person to pull themselves from poverty but for some of the poor they need to be stronger willed than others. If one is dedicated they can do anything but they have to realize when to capitalize on the opportunity before them.
Life will not be equal for everyone, capitalization is the "exploitation" of those who choose to do nothing with their lives. If you are a business owner and you can provide a product or service such as a convenience store to the lower class neighborhoods in America by offering products at a higher price than major retailers well that is a choice. It is capitalizing on the lower classes but they are offering a service to the lower class by taking the RISK to sell to lower class areas by putting a store in the area that will probably get robbed many times and have a high shop lifting rate. In general the rich prey on the lower classes yes BUT the lower classes have a choice to allow themselves to be preyed upon or not. That is the beautiful part of Capitalism and why even though I struggle I prefer they system we have and why it works. I have a choice over my actions, thoughts and feelings of where I shop, where I go to school and whom I do business with and whom I let myself be taken advantage of. MOST of the poor choose to be poor, buy lottery tickets all the time, smoke, drink and what other destructive behaviors they engage themselves in as that is their choice and then they want to blame the rich.
The rich are rich because they have learned how the system works and trained their offspring the same way. Many of the reasons that poor people have opportunities is because the rich (NOT all but some) give back to the country, people etc. Some use it as a tax deduction some do it from the bottom of their heart. Rich is not a dirty word nor should it ever be. The word Rich is much like white or black. Just because you are white does not mean you are mean or own a slave such as back in the old days. Just because you are black does not mean you are a criminal. Rich is one that has a lot of money, they are still people too.
As for the Rich who present an image to the public about not caring about others well they ruin it for everyone who is rich. Not all politicians are bad or corrupt but many are. Many who are bad can change to doing good things and the good who ran for office for all the right reasons and with good intentions get lured into the greed and turn out bad. Again choices. We may elect officials once every so often but the people choose whom we elect and those elected officials are a representation of the people and the state of mind that the people of the US are in at this time. One election the people get tired of certain politicians so they vote them out, then we put what we think are good people in office and when they prove us wrong then we vote them out. There are politicians in our country that appeal to both parties. The state of Indiana I live in is a primarily Republican state but we voted for Obama and we for many years elected a Democratic Senator whom has served us well. We most recently had a Republican Governor that I do not like but even he has done things I do not like to his credit he has made some other things better (not much but some). Point is politicians often do help our country grow and develop and there are people in one party that appeal to both parties and we need more of those people. We do not have enough of those people. Citizens are raised to be divided even from grade school, kids develop clicks in which you have popular kids are all together, nerds in another group and alternatives in another. Then there are those kids that do not belong to any group. Our country is a representation of how the parents in this country rich or poor raise their children plain and simple. When the parents start raising their children differently it will show when they become adults and take the controls of the country.
Those few rich whom do hand out money does make a difference in some peoples lives. If those rich who are handing out that little bit of money affects the lives of a Cancer patient who needs a transplant to survive then they made a difference. Each of us can make a difference if we pay it forward to others. A little can be a lot or a little can save 1 life. No matter the efforts of a few can make a big impact if even on 1 single person.
The foreign policy is not something I agree with. I do not have specific ideas on this issue but I know it is not something that is desirable in its current state. The debt is a result of the politicians that do not know how to balance a checkbook. There needs to be a Constitutional amendment that requires the US government to have a balance budget. The Rich should pay more in taxes but they will not as they have more influence at the top. Some rich are fine with paying their fair share and others are not which is why we are in debt. The greedy and rich people that are bad are destroying this country a little at a time. This is an amazing country and when things look the bleakest the will of the people always prevails and outshines all of the flaws in the times when it is needed the most. The hole we have dug ourselves are making the average person wake up and realize that they need to take control of our own lives and we need to make a difference on our own and not rely on others. The Great Recession is making people here think and re think their priorities and not now nor tomorrow and maybe not in the next 7 years make us a better country but in the long term we will look back at this time in our history and say that made a difference and made us better because the average American stepped up and said for example we bought our house on a 15 year note not a 30 year note and saved tons of money in interest. If those struggle for the 15 year term and once the house was paid off we now have a ton of money each month to create our own wealth.
The book the richest man in Babylon shows that the actions of a few can affect everyone. By going back to the basics the US will I believe get back to where we need to be financially but it will be a long, hard and dark road back to recovery.
In closing I would say that I can control my own actions, change my behaviors and take responsibility for my own actions and decisions. I cannot change this country by myself but I can make a difference for myself and pass along my knowledge to others and that is how we will evolve back greatness not only as a country but as a world society. The will of the people is greater than the elected few and the greedy rich no matter what country you live in as this is being shown in the tides of change today.
Last edited October 23, 2011 10:01:01 am
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Bromagnon
Grasshopper
Location: Australia
Posts: 124
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SilentAssassin
Wise Beyond the Years
lifetime member Location: Midwest
Posts: 2614
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- Posted: October 25, 2011 11:37:52 pm
- Very much so, I cannot wait my friend.
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