Captain America is an agent of....(SPOILERS) (Comic Book Forums)

Captain America is an agent of....(SPOILERS)

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mrhan1 Comic Guru Location: California Posts: 703 My Collection	Posted: May 25, 2016 2:21:37 pm http://time.com/4347224/captain-america-hydra-agent-marvel-tom-brevoort/ Marvel Editor Explains How Captain America Was a Hydra Agent All Along In a shocking twist, Steve Rogers always has been and will continue to be a member of the evil group Sure, he wears red white and blue on the outside, but on the inside? It turns out Steve Rogers, a.k.a. Captain America, supports the evil, former organization, Hydra. Marvel comics introduced the shocking twist Wednesday morning when Captain America: Steve Rogers #1 went on sale — and it turns out there have been hints that this was coming for a long time. TIME spoke with Marvel executive editor Tom Brevoort about the decision, the clues and why Hydra’s rhetoric sounds an awful lot like that of a certain presidential candidate. TIME: How did Marvel decide to make Steve Rogers a secret Hydra operative? Tom Brevoort: Nick Spencer, who is the writer of the series, pitched us the story as part and parcel of restoring Steve to his youth and vigor. In the comics, he’s been old for awhile. The super soldier serum that was keeping him young had been broken down, so for the 75th anniversary, Nick had this notion that we were going to restore him. But then we went into this other story about Hydra, and this is only the tip of the iceberg. If readers go back and look at older comics, will this hold up? It will. Issue 2 kind of winds the clock back a little bit and lays out exactly how and why things are the way they are. And it lays out a roadmap for where things are headed in the future. At this point, I don’t want to say too much definitively because I want people to read the comic books. But people will be able to connect the dots and follow the trail of breadcrumbs. How long has this been in the works? Almost since the beginning of when Nick started writing the Captain America titles, which would have been the end of 2014. So right around there the conversations first started about this. It’s been in the works for more than a year. What does this mean for the Marvel Universe? It means on the most fundamental level that the most trusted hero in the Marvel universe is now secretly a deep-cover Hydra operative, a fact that’s really only known to the readers and to him. That makes every interaction he has with anyone take on a second layer, a second meaning. In the comic the Red Skull of Hydra talks about “criminal trespassers” who “make a mockery” of America’s borders and calls the refugees in Germany an “invading army” bringing “fanatical beliefs and crime” to Europe. Obviously, this hate speech is nothing new for the organization, but it sounds like rhetoric we’ve been hearing this election. Is that purposeful? We try to write comics in 2016 that are about the world and the zeitgeist of 2016, particularly in Captain America. Nick Spencer, the writer, is very politically active. He’s a Capitol Hill head and following this election very closely. So we can talk about political issues in a metaphoric way. That’s what gives our stories weight and meat to them. Any parallels you have seen to situations real or imagined, living or dead, is probably intentional but metaphorically not literally. What are we supposed to think about the fact that someone literally named Captain America now supports these beliefs? Again, I don’t want to say anything too definitively because we’re laying out the story. But we want to push that button. There should be a feeling of horror or unsettledness at the idea that somebody like this can secretly be part of this organization. There are perfectly normal people in the world who you would interact with on a professional level or personal level, and they seem like the salt of the earth but then it turns out they have some horrible secret — whether it’s that they don’t like a certain group of people or have bodies buried in their basement. You should feel uneasy about the fact that everything you know and love about Steve Rogers can be upended. To ask the blunt question, is this a gimmick? Every single month whether it’s a run of the mill month for Captain America or an extraordinary month, our job is to put him in situations that place that character under some degree of pressure and see how he reacts to that. And hopefully our readers are surprised, shocked, elated, see something of themselves, learn something about themselves. To say it’s a gimmick implies that it’s done heedlessly just to shock. The proof is always going to be in the execution. So you’ll have to read the rest of the story to see. But I certainly believe it’s not a gimmick. It’s a story that we spent a long time on, that’s compelling and captures the zeitgeist of the world. It will make readers wonder how the heck we’ll get out of this. Sounds like a gimmick to me.

junobeach Wise Beyond the Years moderator Location: Victoria, BC Canada Posts: 2148 My Collection	Posted: May 26, 2016 10:32:17 am Terrible idea. Just awful. Looking forward to the next reboot where this gets erased from continuity already.
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10678 My Collection	Posted: May 26, 2016 2:28:45 pm It's kind of been done before... I just look at it as a sorta something new, not sure how long I'll read it but for now I'll see where it goes. "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
Rapha1978 Comic Guru Location: North Carolina Posts: 939 My Collection	Posted: May 26, 2016 3:52:59 pm Another weak Marvel move. What's next? I'm sort of sitting back eating popcorn and watching Marvel completely destroy their universe. We strike hard and fade away into the night
rpenny88 Comic Guru lifetime member Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 733 My Collection	Posted: May 26, 2016 4:16:02 pm I can't wait till they reveal him as a Canadian. That will everyone off too
mrhan1 Comic Guru Location: California Posts: 703 My Collection	Posted: May 27, 2016 1:01:50 pm I guess there is a lot of backlash against the writer. Captain America Writer Nick Spencer Gets Death Threats On Social Media http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/05/25/captain-america-writer-nick-spencer-gets-death-threats-on-social-media/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter I really don't know what the big deal is. Sure it's a dumb idea but c'mon...death threats? People are so stupid. Stories like these happen all the time and the only advertising for it was on the last page of an issue or in the letter page. Now it's national news. Stupid. CA #234 Last edited May 27, 2016 1:06:34 pm
AmZoMBiE Wise Beyond the Years moderator Location: Michigan Posts: 6830 My Collection	Posted: May 27, 2016 5:28:47 pm i like the idea personally. i dont think it was a gimmick as there have been plenty of spoilers even throughout the years to back such a story. granted its captain america, but who better to have such a twist. we know they will reel him back in one day, so i say lets see how its presented before instantly saying "I dont like it" could be a double agent, could be a fake cap, could be many possiblities. Look they killed him once in a great story line (Civil war (Comic not Movie)), ppl preached they'd hate that too but it was actually a good read. change it up...let us see a bad cap in a story line. not every story line needs him to be the boy scout-esque all american kid next door. the reason i like this move is because cap being just an overly strong non flying dude with a shield is hard to write and present a great story that doesnt include a marriage or death. This may be the start of something quite different (In one earth reality) my glass is half-full on this one. Last edited May 27, 2016 5:31:38 pm "How to destroy a man... Grant him his heart's desire." --Victor Von Doom - - - - - - - - - - Latest Additions Secret Wars #1 CGC 9.8 Dr. Doom Custom Label... Cameo Emperor Doom!! Secret Wars #2 CGC 9.8 Dr. Doom Custom Label... 1st full app of Emperor Doom!!!
junobeach Wise Beyond the Years moderator Location: Victoria, BC Canada Posts: 2148 My Collection	Posted: May 27, 2016 5:53:08 pm The thing is Nick Spencer has said this is Steve Rogers - not a clone, LMD, not brainwashed or mind controlled. Captain America has always been a sleeper agent for Hydra. If anybody seriously thinks this will last they are crazy. So all it is is a cheap gimmick, nothing more.
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10678 My Collection	Posted: May 27, 2016 6:24:04 pm Well the whole industry is built on cheap gimmicks so why not one more. If it sells (and it will) flippers will be clamoring for the 1st issues so they can make a quick $$ on ebay. People need to take a chill pill and just read the issues and see where it goes and stop being critical because the character isn't the cookie cutter one they remember. Not all changes are bad. "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
brucifer Wise Beyond the Years lifetime member Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1133 My Collection	Posted: May 27, 2016 6:52:43 pm Just another slap in the face for older readers who have been following Cap for decades. Marvel what are you doing? I understand wanting to sell your comic books, but come on! Colour me unimpressed and I will no longer buy Captain America comics again (well, maybe back issues).
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10678 My Collection	Posted: May 27, 2016 8:12:02 pm With this single issue Marvel has managed to steal the thunder of DC's Rebirth release, so it's a win for them. I'm a long time comic reader and a Marvel fan, at this point I don't care what they do to the characters as they've already blown up the whole universe/continuity that made me care for Marvel in the first place. "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
junobeach Wise Beyond the Years moderator Location: Victoria, BC Canada Posts: 2148 My Collection	Posted: May 28, 2016 11:43:37 am
Immortus Collector in Training Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 3 My Collection	Posted: May 31, 2016 2:56:06 pm The Steve Rogers Captain America has always been one of my favorite characters in any literary universe. I liked that he didn't have insane superpowers, but exhibited the kind of dedication and leadership that most of us aspire to. Over the years, the stories have not been kind to Steve Rogers. Whether being kicked out of the country, being disavowed, having the Cap identity taken away, having the Super Soldier Serum removed and even dying he always seems to get the short end. Also, I'm not a fan of Falcon as Captain America and see him as symbol of this current wave of political correctness. I don't have a problem with this twist. If I was Steve Rogers I might feel bitter too. Now I'm more interested in seeing what they can do with it. Last edited May 31, 2016 2:57:01 pm
brucifer Wise Beyond the Years lifetime member Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1133 My Collection	Posted: May 31, 2016 5:09:48 pm I'm still fuming days later and I would write Marvel a nasty e-mail, but they could give two !
Original Man Grasshopper Posts: 135 My Collection	Posted: June 2, 2016 9:53:32 pm Last edited June 2, 2016 9:56:43 pm
Original Man Grasshopper Posts: 135 My Collection	Posted: June 2, 2016 10:00:27 pm junobeach said: Terrible idea. Just awful. Looking forward to the next reboot where this gets erased from continuity already. lol
Original Man Grasshopper Posts: 135 My Collection	Posted: June 2, 2016 10:07:31 pm Immortus said: The Steve Rogers Captain America has always been one of my favorite characters in any literary universe. I liked that he didn't have insane superpowers, but exhibited the kind of dedication and leadership that most of us aspire to. Over the years, the stories have not been kind to Steve Rogers. Whether being kicked out of the country, being disavowed, having the Cap identity taken away, having the Super Soldier Serum removed and even dying he always seems to get the short end. Also, I'm not a fan of Falcon as Captain America and see him as symbol of this current wave of political correctness. I don't have a problem with this twist. If I was Steve Rogers I might feel bitter too. Now I'm more interested in seeing what they can do with it. who better to take on the mantel of Cap than sidekicks like Bucky or Falcon?
AmZoMBiE Wise Beyond the Years moderator Location: Michigan Posts: 6830 My Collection	Posted: June 3, 2016 12:18:59 am Johnny Walker lol...he's been pretending for years lol "How to destroy a man... Grant him his heart's desire." --Victor Von Doom - - - - - - - - - - Latest Additions Secret Wars #1 CGC 9.8 Dr. Doom Custom Label... Cameo Emperor Doom!! Secret Wars #2 CGC 9.8 Dr. Doom Custom Label... 1st full app of Emperor Doom!!!
Original Man Grasshopper Posts: 135 My Collection	Posted: June 3, 2016 2:00:30 am Canuck said: With this single issue Marvel has managed to steal the thunder of DC's Rebirth releas. as well as their own Civil War 2 which I thought was better than Cap
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10678 My Collection	Posted: June 3, 2016 1:08:47 pm When everyone starts to realize (and I did over 15 years ago) it's not what the customer/collectors/readers want, it's all about what the publishers think we want. And when you we all figure this out we won't really give a what they do. Show them you don't like it by not purchasing it. "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
brucifer Wise Beyond the Years lifetime member Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1133 My Collection	Posted: June 3, 2016 1:28:28 pm Older fans won't fall for gimmicks, it's the newbies and speculators who keep Marvel in business. Everyone should boycott Marvel for three or four months and see if that resonates a difference to them. I bet it would!
fennrx Grasshopper Location: South of Heaven Posts: 151 My Collection	Posted: June 3, 2016 3:20:53 pm Vote with your wallet. I've dropped a number of titles because they are .... Old man Logan Carnage Spiderman All new wolverine Every xmen book Every avengers book My wife is dropping a-force. I'm about to drop amazing spiderman and iron man. I did like civil war II #1 though.
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10678 My Collection	Posted: June 3, 2016 4:07:00 pm Yup! Buy what you like to read and not for investment. Came across Ed Brubakers blog and he had this to say about this issue and why he left Marvel - http://us13.campaign-archive2.com/?u=12703963b24c2d94a368d4082&id=40f486d30f&e=UNIQID WHY I QUIT DOING WORK-FOR-HIRE SUPERHERO COMICS So, yesterday online a ton of people were very upset about Captain America, which as you probably know is a book I wrote for Marvel for about 8 years. I guess because of the Cap movies being based on a lot of my work with the Winter Soldier, a lot of these people decided to scream at me about what Marvel was doing. So I spent half the morning explaining to people that I don't work at Marvel, haven't for about five years, and that I have no say in what they do or don't do. I don't even read any Marvel or DC books on a monthly basis anymore, because after about 15 years writing superheroes, I have pretty low interest in the genre. I can see the hooks coming, and I know where all the stories will eventually end up. The good guys will win and all will be right with the world, until next month. But amidst all the upset fans and people calling me a and other fun things for a comic I had nothing to do with and haven't read, I thought, this is why more people should just follow creators and read original comics (which is what I like to call "creator-owned" comics). If readers want consistency and passion and craft, it's a lot more rare in company-owned superhero comics than it is outside of them. Sure, there have been great long runs on those books, I managed to get lucky and have long runs where I got to do what I wanted (mostly) on Captain America and Daredevil, but those runs are generally the exception. Because the thing is, with those company-owned characters, there are always going to be events and reboots and twists that are spoiled online or in the media first, and there are always going to be outraged fans because of it. I get loving superhero comics and I get following characters, believe me. And I love when I see people dressed as the Winter Soldier or shipping "Stucky" but I feel like way too many comic readers act almost like they're forced to buy Marvel and DC books, like it's a government program or something. It's not. There are plenty of great comics where the art is by the same people every issue, where there is never a fill-in issue or a reboot or a retcon. In fact, many of the creators who you love on Marvel and DC books are doing their finest work outside those big companies - Jason Aaron's Southern Bastards and The are two of my favorite comics, Kieron and Jamie did a great run on Young Avengers, but Wicked + Divine is them unfiltered. I don't have to tell you about Saga and Planet and Criminals, I'm sure. All by creators who made big names at Marvel or DC, all of whom are happier doing work that they totally control. Look, anyway, you all know this, most likely if you're on my mailing list is because you read my current comics. But after a day of people screeching at me about a comic I had nothing to do with, I remembered how happy I was not to be part of that world anymore. People are constantly asking why I don't go back to Marvel, assuming there was some huge problem that caused me to leave, but really it was just a slow burnout, tiring of endless events and stunts and reboots. Now, don't get me wrong, I wish no ill will on Marvel or DC. I don't think the comics market could survive without them, and I made a good living working for both of them for a long time. I just wish, sometimes, when people are white hot raging about the things they do, they'd just go buy Southern Bastards or Planet or any of a dozen other great comics owned and controlled by their creators, instead of going online and yelling at giant corporations to change how they do business. Last edited June 3, 2016 4:07:24 pm "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
brucifer Wise Beyond the Years lifetime member Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1133 My Collection	Posted: June 6, 2016 2:08:22 am That's a great read from an ex-Marvel writer and of course he's right. Won't matter because so many fans are already programmed to buy whatever the "it" book is at the time Marvel and DC will keep rolling along and rebooting every couple of years. Thanks to Canuck either way.
GenesisDay07 Teacher Location: South Africa, Cape Town Posts: 307 My Collection	Posted: June 6, 2016 2:22:00 am Very well said . . . I think many of us suffer from what is called FOMO, i.e. Fear of Missing Out . . . that's how those "big events" work. They make you believe that something drastic will change and because many of us are so invested in these characters, we fall for it each and every time . . . sure, everything will probably go back to how it was before . . . . . . BUT, what if it doesn't . . . . . . and we miss out?
Canuck I have no life moderator Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 10678 My Collection	Posted: June 6, 2016 8:30:46 am In this day and age you will never miss out because it will be reprinted in comic form (6 printings or more), HC and TPB so if you want the story no problem. Problem is so many collectors collect to make money and that's why they don't want to miss the next big thing. "Disliking everything is not the same thing as having an opinion"
Tex75455 Wise Beyond the Years lifetime member Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1871 My Collection	Posted: July 6, 2016 7:43:34 pm Sorry, back on the forums after a bit of an absence. Personally i just figure this is a side effect of Kubik rewriting Caps reality. In other words, while he may have "always" been a Hydra agent in a post Kubik reality, he wasnt pre Standoff Hill, if that makes sense. Also, Fennr I'm loving Carnage and All New Wolverine...
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