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Cashthedog
Collector in Training
Location: Victoria
Posts: 18
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- Posted: May 21, 2013 11:36:54 pm
- Anyone else feel that there are just too many variants nowadays? Seems as though almost every issue has at least two lately. I'm totally down for 1st issue variants and milestone issue variants, but come on enough is enough.
Just posting on here as it seems as though many variants are showing up on the Hot Items thread.
What are everyone's all time fav variants? Lets post some pics
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echo
Comic Guru
Location: PA
Posts: 585
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 12:11:07 am
- Yeah I agree with you, way too many and should only be with #1 issues, there's lots of cool variants to me, I've always been a huge scotty young fan so I love all he does. One of my all time favorites though is Thor #601b, that cover just cracks me up and is so unique. it stands out because it's different than all other covers, especially thor covers showing action and such
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SteveC77
Wise Beyond the Years
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 12:41:31 am
- Not at all... It gives us a chance to see additional art from great artists that we wouldn't see otherwise. Personally I love the variety of cover art that we have today. Keep in mind you don't have to buy variant issues. Some weeks I don't buy any variants but still like to see the additional cover art.
Last edited May 22, 2013 12:42:08 am
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weinreich
Wise Beyond the Years
lifetime member Location: Denmark
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hermanwilliams
Teacher
Posts: 340
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 8:23:08 am
- I don't think there are too many. I think the prices for them are insanely stupid. I do like being able to see more artwork and if I can get one I like for close to cover then I will buy one. Otherwise I don't even worry about it.
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Cashthedog
Collector in Training
Location: Victoria
Posts: 18
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 9:08:05 am
- Thanks for all the great comments everyone.
I love the extra artwork too. I guess I'm just frustrated with the insane prices and the volume which makes it tough to keep track of everything...
Anyway my fav. is probably Ghost Rider #34 Wolverine variant, always thought is was pretty cool.
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fsjeter
Comic Guru
lifetime member Location: Las Vegas, NV
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hermanwilliams
Teacher
Posts: 340
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 12:19:41 pm
- @fsjeter...those are very cool. Not the x-men one though. IMO
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Spa-fon
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kewilson
Comic Guru
lifetime member Location: Canada
Posts: 525
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 3:54:48 pm
- WAY too many variants which are killing the collector market, imo.
It gets to the point that the only comics worth any decent money (new comics) are the variant covers which are impossible to find for cheap. I do hope that once the demand for them goes down since the print runs are less for some of them, that the 1st original printing of the books will start to come up in price.
I find it very tough and very hard to collect with all of these variants for EVERY issue of a comic book, especially the most popular of superheroes like ASM for example. It's getting out of hand......glad someone started this thread, gives me a chance to finally rant about this subject =)
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Tex75455
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lifetime member Location: Arlington, VA
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 7:14:55 pm
- I agree with Steve, I dont chase variants, and I sympathize with those who do, but for me its just nice to see the extra art, and every now and then one grabs my attention and I consider buying it.
My recent favs over the last year:
All of the Scarlet Spider issue 1 variants All of last year's symbiote variants, particularly the ASM and Scarlet Spider ones Uncanny Avengers 1 Scarlet Witch variant
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SteveC77
Wise Beyond the Years
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 8:17:49 pm
Tex75455 said: I agree with Steve, I dont chase variants, and I sympathize with those who do, but for me its just nice to see the extra art, and every now and then one grabs my attention and I consider buying it. My recent favs over the last year: All of the Scarlet Spider issue 1 variants All of last year's symbiote variants, particularly the ASM and Scarlet Spider ones Uncanny Avengers 1 Scarlet Witch variant
The Uncanny Avengers Scarlet Which cover is a beautiful work of art. One of my favs as well. I believe it's by Granov?
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Tex75455
Wise Beyond the Years
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Posts: 1871
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- Posted: May 22, 2013 8:23:57 pm
- I think your right. I actually saw it on ebay for 30$ a while back and seriously considered buyin it (i think cover price was 60). I slept on it, had pretty much decided to get it, and woke up the next morning to make my purchase, and someone else had already hit the BIN.
I had instant non-buyers remorse... Definitely felt I had missed out on a deal.
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hermanwilliams
Teacher
Posts: 340
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- Posted: May 23, 2013 11:09:40 am
- I think I'll be getting one of those (scarlet witch covers). Very nice.
I don't see how it is killing the collector market. It offers collectors more options. It definitely effects the speculator market, but so what.
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kewilson
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lifetime member Location: Canada
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- Posted: May 23, 2013 11:26:14 am
- True, but the 1st printings are worth cover price and all of the variants are worth the money. So, if you get the 1st printing normal cover it's worth nothing, and the variants are worth more....so you have to get the variants if you want your collection to be worth more than the cover prices. I don't know, that's just the way I see it.....not to mention the LCS's that I go to rarely have 1st printing variant covers.
Granted this isn't always the case, but with what I'm seeing in the CBR guide right now, the only thing going up in value are variants for the most part.
But I'm looking at it from a monetary standpoint....
Last edited May 23, 2013 11:29:49 am
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hermanwilliams
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- Posted: May 23, 2013 12:48:14 pm
- Seems to me that a small fraction of all the variants produced are actually worth anything. Most of them depreciate greatly after just a few months, with a couple of them actually increasing.
If a collector collects what they like to read then they end up with good stories and that is the way it has always been. If you are a collector that actually wants books that are difficult to come by, as in less than 100k copies, then buying variants is an option for you without having to spend even more money to get rare old books. I just see it as having more options for how you want your collection to look. If all you had were options of getting #1 first prints, then those wouldn't be that valuable anyway because there are so many of them. The variants are a unpredictable wrench thrown in because you can't be certain how they effect the demand of the regular covers. I don't like the fact that LCS's have to order so many copies of the regular covers to get a HTF variant. That is what effectually drives down the demand of the regular covers. But, like said in an earlier post, as long as people are willing to pay rediculous prices for a somewhat more rare cover, then that is the way the it will continue to be.
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dropper
Collector in Training
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- Posted: May 23, 2013 5:10:33 pm
- Just curious can lcs order variants or is it always a 1:25 1:500 type thing?
and that Thor variant is awesome! just added it to my want list
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fsjeter
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- Posted: May 23, 2013 6:22:14 pm
dropper said:Just curious can lcs order variants or is it always a 1:25 1:500 type thing? and that Thor variant is awesome! just added it to my want list
Yes. That is why you see so many store variants like all the Midtown Variant covers or the Phantom and Ghost variants (which are groups of shops). I spoke to a rep. from Marvel a while back and they have a 3,000 issue minimum order for store variants. I don't know what it is for the other publishers.
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Tex75455
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- Posted: May 23, 2013 10:01:19 pm
- If you are looking for comics to appreciate value quickly, then buying new comics, variant or cover, is a little silly. You are better off sticking to maybe a few independent new comics, but mostly focusing on buying old comics that are worth a bit more already, and hoping those appreciate in value.
New comics will pretty much be worth cover (be it 2.99 or whatever the variant price was) and thats it. So to me it seems a bit silly to complain about new comics only being worth cover... thats just what they are.
Keep in mind for the older comics that are now worth so much more than cover, it took forty years for that to happen. Nothing happens overnight.
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kewilson
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- Posted: May 23, 2013 10:21:10 pm
- Don't get me wrong, I'm a patient person, but when I see a new issue's value worth the cover and the variant worth $15, it's a tad frustrating. Look at like Daredevil 25. 2 variants, one $12 and one $15 according to guide, and the "regular cover" is worth the cover price.... I wanted 26B that came out on Wednesday. The first LCS had none, the 2nd LCS had one but sold instantly, and in a few days it'll probably be worth double the cover price or more.
I hear you though, most new comics will be worth cover for a long time, especially if they are not a key issue.
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Tex75455
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- Posted: May 24, 2013 5:18:00 pm
- I'm not sure I agree with you on that though. More often than not, variants end up being worth less than their "cover" after six months or so. Sure, there are success stories, but for the most part they tend to fall in price, or at the most hover at their going rate, because people who speculated dont want to feel like they lost money on them.
That scarlet witch cover is a great example. You can still get it for its "cover price" if you shop a bit, and like i said i saw one for half price on ebay. I know some skyrocket in price (ASM symbiote/mj cover), but a lot of em just dont. If they do, its because the art is worth it for some reason. So i just dont think that even variant covers are an "investment"
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tangledwebs
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- Posted: June 12, 2013 2:52:22 pm
- A year or so ago, I'd have agreed. These days, there isn't that many. I only collect spider titles and that has quieted down since then. That's fine with me. When something monumental comes along worthy of a variant then fine as well. I'll buy them.
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imacdvguy
Collector in Training
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- Posted: June 18, 2013 10:46:04 pm
- My feeling is that there are too many variants but that they can be safely ignored. Unless you are a completionist, I suppose. Now, how they end up affecting value I'm not sure.
I now realize that my comments on this subject are worthless!
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kewilson
Comic Guru
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- Posted: June 19, 2013 7:25:30 am
- Your comments are NOT worthless!
I agree, there are WAY too many variants, and I still believe it does affect the price for the regular covers that most people buy. The other factor would be print runs (different topic), but I think print runs should be way less these days so you don't have 10 issues of the same comic sitting at your LCS and the value doesn't go up because it's still available at the cover price.
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junobeach
Wise Beyond the Years
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- Posted: June 19, 2013 10:48:47 am
- If I see a hot variant I like I just wait six months to buy it when the price inevitably nosedives.
The only ones that seem to keep their value are Amazing Spider-Man issues.
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Tex75455
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- Posted: June 19, 2013 6:25:49 pm
- Of course, what I find really interesting is that the Skottie Young variants are still sold at cover price, even though I would argue that those are the most steadily in demand variants of them all.
Many people (myself included), love these variants. I would expect theyd be sold for slightly above cover, but you can still get many of them for regular price.
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junobeach
Wise Beyond the Years
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- Posted: June 20, 2013 1:30:50 am
Tex75455 said: Of course, what I find really interesting is that the Skottie Young variants are still sold at cover price, even though I would argue that those are the most steadily in demand variants of them all.
Many people (myself included), love these variants. I would expect theyd be sold for slightly above cover, but you can still get many of them for regular price. Marvel is about to flood the market with them by offering 10packs of all the covers to shop owners.
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Tex75455
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- Posted: June 21, 2013 7:58:15 am
- Thats what I mean though, Im surprised the print run is so high on these. If marvel wanted to make more money, theyd reduce the print count and sell em as a 1:X variant. People would pay for em.
I may pick up those packs if the price is right. I love the covers, but to be honest the only one I have is the rocket raccoon and groot GotG one. I love that cover. Fiance got it for me for my bday (shes trying!).
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Canuck
I have no life
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Tex75455
Wise Beyond the Years
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- Posted: June 21, 2013 5:17:47 pm
- Hahahahahahaha... but we do love you for it.
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SilentAssassin
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- Posted: July 5, 2013 11:14:32 pm
- I for one think you are doing a fantastic job! Keep up the good work AS for variants I hate them when there are too many at once like ASM 700 to SS 1 however after a fairly long break I miss them and could use some more. I miss the chase, its like blood running through the veins!
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spazz
Collector in Training
Location: Fresno CA
Posts: 4
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- Posted: August 1, 2013 4:40:44 am
- you can never have too many variants just like you can never have too many comics!! Gives me more to collect, if i love the art ill def buy it. Especially if i love the comic as well. Helps Marvel stand out, not that they need the help haha
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slenderman
Grasshopper
Location: Rochester,NY
Posts: 112
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- Posted: August 5, 2013 10:26:00 pm
- Some Variants bring interesting great art to some comic cover's but others are just ridiculous and wastes of money. It is really all about the artist and the buyer's likes.
Last edited August 6, 2013 9:35:48 am
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SilentAssassin
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- Posted: August 6, 2013 7:21:28 am
- Many have been a waste but then like you said there are those few that make everything totally worth it.
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Logan73
Collector in Training
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- Posted: August 6, 2013 9:47:36 am
- Are there too many variants?
In my opinion yes. Especially some publishers/titles abuse the variant tactic (Red Sonja from Dynamite; A+X from Marvel; Superman Unchained from DC; and on and on). Even though I believe there are too many, I still like variants though.
I consider myself a comic collector and investor, and if I am buying a modern comic (published after 2000) then I am almost always buying a variant.
Not saying that modern comics are a good investiment, but if an specific issue is going to go up... then the rarer variant of that issue will likely go up more.
Who knows which exact comic will rise in value in the mid to long term (2 to 20 years)? I personally buy the variants printed on a ratio scale of 10 to 1 (or rarer), selecting ones that I feel have some attraction (better cover art; good story; first appearance or important event), and are reasonably priced (if it is a 10 to 1 then 2 bucks; 25 to 1 then 3 bucks; 50 to 1 then 5 bucks; 100 to 1 in at 10 bucks; rarer then 100 to 1 then I have no set rules).
Generally because of inflated prices, I wait at least 3 years or longer to go after specific variants I like... but with Ebay and so many issues up for sale on other websites, even newer variants can slip through the cracks and be bought on the cheap.
Do variants hurt the potential future prices of the regular issues? Of course they do. The LCS often buys more of the regular issues than naturally demanded to get the variants, so a flood of 1st runs are left to decay in the long boxes everywhere.
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spazz
Collector in Training
Location: Fresno CA
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- Posted: August 6, 2013 11:57:26 pm
- supply and demand, as long as people are forking over the cash for variants the variants will still come. It does get frustrating when 1 book gets like 4 or 6 variant covers. Thats when i just narrow it down and buy the covers i like. Most of the covers ill end up buying are the ones ill end up framing and putting on the wall for display.
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Souldog29ca
Collector in Training
Location: San Diego County, CA
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- Posted: October 15, 2013 4:14:10 am
- As a variant collector, I've noticed that sketch variants are the ones that always seem to run the highest, therefore I'm always on the hunt for sketch variants. Take Batman #1 for instance. I grabbed the Ethan Van Sciver variant and got it graded and signed by the artist because it just looked so awesome to me, but the sketch variant of Batman #1 is FARRR more valuable according to CBR's price rating than colored variants.
:shrug: Who knows, but I still grab as many as I can, and my LCS loves to gouge me for them! Some kitties aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some cats just want to watch the world burn.... Dum dum dummmm!!!
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Tex75455
Wise Beyond the Years
lifetime member Location: Arlington, VA
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- Posted: October 15, 2013 8:18:36 pm
- Im not at all a fan of sketch variants. They just seem lazy to me. I love that they are the most expensive though, because I know im never gonna buy it, so i dont have to worry about missin out on a great one I want. (Mostly anyway)
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SilentAssassin
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- Posted: October 15, 2013 8:46:23 pm
- Most are but a few take the cake.
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atmos
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PRawlins83
Collector in Training
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Johnwolin
Collector in Training
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 3
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- Posted: July 29, 2014 5:03:02 am
- I'm just getting back into comics after a 3 year hiatus (which happens to be my daughters age go figure) and I'm of the class of person that thinks two per issue is fine. However, I specifically stick with Amazing Spider-Man and now more recently, Batman.
Batman they don't seem to bad about it. Amazing Spider-Man however, they were doing this stuff three years back but nothing like they are now. It's horrible. The cool thing about the variants I got back then is one of them that I got over the normal cover is actually not only a cooler looking Alex Ross cover, but it is also worth $4 more than the other one. Not much, but the idea that I chose a more valuable choice in the long run is cool.
The annoying thing with variants now is it seems that when the two comic stores in my area get the comics, they pick out the variants with the least amount and mark up the price from $4 to $8 (I'm still having a hard time getting over the fact that a comic is $4!) so that is pretty annoying.
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Mr.Grimm
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- Posted: November 13, 2014 3:58:35 am
kewilson said: WAY too many variants which are killing the collector market, imo.
It gets to the point that the only comics worth any decent money (new comics) are the variant covers which are impossible to find for cheap. I do hope that once the demand for them goes down since the print runs are less for some of them, that the 1st original printing of the books will start to come up in price.
I find it very tough and very hard to collect with all of these variants for EVERY issue of a comic book, especially the most popular of superheroes like ASM for example. It's getting out of hand......glad someone started this thread, gives me a chance to finally rant about this subject =)
I know your right about what you are saying. What happened in 1996 ? collectors crash due to too many people collecting; lack of people reading comics as well as people buying multiple copies. People actually thought they were going to get thousands and thousands of dollars for their collections. Good thing i figured this out in 1987 and started buying silver and bronze comics mostly.
I believe that in the future people who are new collectors will most likely mind themselves in what is selling in their era (future). They will not care so much as to what is happening today with the variant crazzz. When the variant era has moved on, not very many will care of this eras collecting habits, they will either look at there modern world of comics(that they are familiar with) or be interested in one of the specified age groups: golden, silver, bronze or copper(they will hold there value/less speculation influence) In simplest terms people of today will most likely be disappointed in their values of their variant comics. why? There are to many of the same story with deliberately different covers. Some say but i like all the cover art. then buy more different comics and get different covers that you like, simple. (don't sell ice cubes to an Eskimo) lol
What does 1:50 really mean or 1:25? 1:25 of what? of the total regular editions? because if it is, the collectors of variants are in for some bad news. If right............
200,000 print run of regular issues. lets say you have 8 different number 1 variants of 1:25. so then there are 8 times
8000 variant issues =64,000 more comics of that issue that happen to be variants
What this means is that about one quarter of the total print run is of variants, not to scarce (almost 1:4)and all of them will be in 9.6 or better forever. And the other thing your paying 10+ dollars for each variant. doesn't sound like a profitable plan in continuing the variant purchases. There are the small exceptions of course.
200000+64000= 264000 comics total 64000/264000= 0.24 (almost 1:4)
Last edited November 13, 2014 4:03:35 am
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bluebullitt01
Collector in Training
Location: Midwest
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Mr.Grimm
Teacher
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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- Posted: November 26, 2014 6:31:29 pm
- How do variants get calculated into a total print run?
I dont think anyone knows. I believe This will be a pivoting point as to whether they keep value or not. Will there be another deliberate way to get others(customers) to buy, instead of using variants to get people to spend? to these new deliberate variations of issues. Only need one cover to make a comic or to read one.
How do variants get calculated into a total print run? Does the Regular issue Print run get made first, then variants come after, the regular issues are made? Variant could be very much watered down. The ratios they are giving you are probably from the regular issues only, but we need to know for-sure
I can buy old 1:25 variants for less then cover price. I wouldnt pay the cost of a coffee to own one. Terrible story lines for the most part (lThe content for Grimm Tale type books, are not good IMHO they are mostly about T&A.) The old Thriller comics (50s,60s, 70s)where good. This isn't about everything old is good and everything new is ; no. This is about penmanship, creativity and artistry, that needs to be the focus and not what will variant covers we need to dribble out to the public
Simplest terms to this variation question is: Yes!! and it will crash, but when? How do variants get calculated into a total print run?
Last edited November 26, 2014 6:45:05 pm
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Mr.Grimm
Teacher
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- Posted: November 26, 2014 6:51:05 pm
SteveC77 said: Not at all... It gives us a chance to see additional art from great artists that we wouldn't see otherwise. Personally I love the variety of cover art that we have today. Keep in mind you don't have to buy variant issues. Some weeks I don't buy any variants but still like to see the additional cover art.
What do you think will happen when everyone gets over that variation of cover art crazzzz? I can now buy3 or 4 year old 1:25 variations for about cover price or less. Just sayin .
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tangledwebs
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Location: Buffalo
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- Posted: November 28, 2014 7:39:08 am
- Who can predict when that will happen? None of us really know what variants will stay hot and which will end up in the bargain bin. Look at EOSV #2. Does anyone think that will go down any time soon?
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ultramagnotron
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- Posted: December 4, 2014 3:07:40 pm
- I like the idea of having the option, but I don't like having to pay more. Why? What's so great about the alt cover that I have to pay more for it? So, I don't buy them. My LCS will give me the sub cover for a book on my pull list, but other than that I never get the alts because they're not worth the extra money.
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Joyus
Collector in Training
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- Posted: December 5, 2014 12:53:03 am
- They use to commerate some important milestone, now they are just cash grabs at a dwindling collectors market. If it's to promote/appreciate other artists they could include a copy of alternate covers in the issue itself, or at least make every cover available to everyone so people are free to choose. Unfortuantely we have retailer incentives, 1: ratios, special commissioned covers for stores/conventions etc.
Artificial means to keep interest in the comic market/characters.
It's quite amusing that Image of the 90s was milking every fan for their last cent, current image has cut down on the number of variants while the big two are churning them out. Can't wait till they start churning out digital cover variants and making you pay for multiple copies... or are they already doing that?
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